THE
TIMOTHY HURLEY CONTENDERS
Refer "Once We Had Castles And Everything"
These are the eleven possibilities that didn't make the cut for stated reasons. If you're hunting Irish rellies in West Cork it may have something of value.
<<<<< >>>>>
[1] 16/12/38 – to Timothy Hurley & Jo’ Hoolshan (Bantry)
Old
“Bantry Parish” was originally Bantry, Durrus & Kilcrohane (in older
records these two are “Muintervara” – all of Goats Head Pen), and Glengarriff,
but now also the large modern parish of Kilmocomoge to the north.
No
relevant marriage found for Timothy Hurley & Jo’ Hoolshan (or similar) in
the Bantry area.
The
children bapt to them appear to be –
21/4/32
– Margt, mother “Jo’ Hoolahan”, in “Bantry Parish”, sp Marty Shea, Marion Shea
23/9/36
– Joe and John, m “Jo’ Hoolshan”, in “Bantry Parish”, sp Patrick Dawley, Mary
Kealing, Joe McKeating, Honora Sullivan
16/12/38
– Cathn, m “Jo’ Hoolshan” in “Bantry Parish”, sp Timy Donoghue, Joe Callaghan
10/1/41
– Jos, m “Jos Holland” in “Bantry Parish”, sp Michl Crowley, Ellen Sullivan
21/4/44
– Timy, m “Jo’ Whoolshan” in “Bantry Parish”, sp Denis McCarthy, Ellen Shea
In
Griffiths there are Hourihan, Hourahan, Hoolihan, Hourahane, Hoolahan, and
Holland names shown in Kilmocomoge.
In
the Griffiths for Kilmocomoge -
Clashduff
– a tenant of David Kirby, a house only (looks like it’s shared with a Daniel
Donovan), 2/- “Net Annual Value” (lowest value).
Dromsullivan
North – tenant of Michael (Mick) Hurley, house only, 2/- There are several
other Hurleys in the townland, a couple with Land.
Glanareagh
– tenant of William O’Sullivan, 44 acres Land, House & Gdn 14/-, no other
Hurleys. Also rents two 4/- houses out to a Casey and a Koehane.
In
the Tithes for Kilmocomoge there’s Glanreagh 1 Hurley entry (a Timothy), and
Droumsullivan 13 Hurley entries (Denis 3, Michael 6, Dick 2, & Jerry 2),
plus a scatter through other townlands. All of these blocks are smallish 20-30
acres.
Glanareagh is northeast of Bantry
Dromsullivan is north of west of Bantry
Clashduff is just south of Bantry.
There’s
a small townland of Gearagh (just 68 acres) in the parish of Kilmocomoge, NE of
Ballylickey at (Map 88) 562 040, but there’s no Hurleys in it for Tithes or
Griffiths (just O’Sullivans), or the 1901 Census.
Gearagh
is about 4kms north of Dromsullivan, but no Hoolihans for Tithes or Griffiths,
and can’t find any other relevant data.
DEATHS
– 13/3/1885 - Timothy Hurley, Caherdaniel (Bantry), widower, 88 (=1797),
Labourer, Ap ??, inf Kate Cadogan (cross), p a d. (Caherdaniel is just NW of
Bantry, in Kilmocomoge).
Likelihood? -
It’s
in the Bantry area.
The
Timothy death is possible, aged 35 at first child and 47 at last?
The
Dromsullivan Griffiths entry is the right profile.
If
this is Catherine, she would have been 30 at marriage, and 47 when she had her
last child.
Hard
to make any connect to the “Gearagh” townland.
<<<< >>>>
[2]
4/3/43 – to Timothy Hurley & Nel Quinlan (Bandon)
On
7/2/37 a Timothy Hurley mar an Ellen Quinlan in Bandon parish, w Tim Quinlan,
Dan Quinlan. (So, Timothy born say 1800-1820, Nel born 1810-1820 if she was 18
at her first child, or 49 at last).
All
children bapt to them appear to be –
20/9/38
– Dan, of Bandon, sp Dan Hurley, Nel Quinlan
5/11/40
– Nel, of Bandon, sp James Hurly, Honora Quinlan
4/3/43
– Catherine, of Bandon, sp Dan Carrie, Cath Hurly
15/2/46
– Tim, of Bandon, sp Danl Hurley, Mary Quinlan
11/5/51
– Mary, of Bandon, sp Patrick Sullivan, Margt Canniff
4/6/55
– Norrie, of Bandon, sp Dan Hurly, Mary Sullivan
?/1/59
– Michael, of Ballinhassig, sp John Hogan, Cate Caniffe
In
Griffiths there are lots of Hurleys and Quinlans in Ballymoden and Kilbrogan
parishes (which covers the greater Bandon area). In Laragh townland (just west
of Bandon, in Kilbrogan parish) there is a Timothy Hurley, “House and small
gdn”, rated 10/-.
There
are LOTS of Driscolls in Ballymodan and some in Kilbrogan.
There
are Daunts (a witness at Catherine’s wedding) in Griffiths in Desertserges (adj
to Ballymodan to the west) and Inishannon (adj to Kilbrogan to the east).
In
the Tithes there and lots of Hurleys and Quinlans in Ballymoden and Kilbrogan
parishes, inc – Tim Hurley Laragh, John Quinlan and Tim Quinlan of Laragh, and
Denis Quinlan of Coolfadda. There are very few Daunts in all of Co Cork (and NO
Dants).
The
local Baptism possibilities for Timothy Hurley are...
26/4/1816
– to Timothy Hurley & Judy Ryan Bandon RD
27/5/1818
– to Patrick Hurley & Honora Flynn Bandon RD
31/10/1819
– to Patrick Hurley & Mary Hurly Bandon RD
And
for Ellen Quinlan...
30/9/1809
- to John Quinlan & Mary Sullivan Bandon RD
20/5/1816
- to Tim Quinlan & Honora Donovan Bandon RD
6/7/1816
- to Denis Quinlan & Mary Leary Bandon RD
And
for the two witnesses at Catherine’s wedding...
1846
– Denis, to a John Driscoll & Mary Donovan of Bandon RD.
(He
would’ve been 23 at the wedding).
1839
– Ellen, at Enniskeane, to John Daunt & Anne nee Hurley
(But
she would’ve been 30 at the wedding, and still unmarried?)
(Marriages
of the seven kids of Timothy and Nel Quinlan above don’t turn up any (inc
Catherine) in Bandon RD (Civil), after a fairly wide sweep, implying that THIS
Catherine married elsewhere).
And
the Deaths registers give...
27/5/1879
- Timothy Hurley, “Burrin” (Bandon), married, 80 (=bn 1799), Labourer, old age,
inf James H (signed a cross) p.a.d. (Presume this is in Bandon town, or
nearby).
29/10/1881
- Timothy Hurley, Knockbrogan (Bandon), widower, 73 (=1808), Labourer, rectal
abcess, inf Timothy H (cross) p.a.d. (Knockbrogan is the NE sector of Kilbrogan
parish).
6/1/1898
- Timothy Hurley, Mayfield, (Bandon), widower, 80 (=1818), Labourer, senectus,
inf J Holland (Workhouse) p.a.d. (Mayfield is a large landed estate just
sth-west of the town).
17/1/1884
– Ellen Hurley, Laragh, 80 (=bn 1804), bronchitis, widow of Farmer, inf son
Daniel Hurley of Laragh. (Search was for “Nel” but only Ellens came up. None of
the other 5 hits match the data of the Timothy deaths above, but this one could
be the widow of either the 1879 or the 1898 Timothy above. Or neither, as here
he’s a “Farmer”).
Likelihood?
- FOR
The
“Laragh” (actually “Laithreach” in the Irish) townland is a possible for
“Hairech”.
NO
Catherine marriage on Bandon RD record (so she married elsewhere).
NO
Catherine death on Bandon RD record to 1869 (of right-enough age).
Any
one of the deaths could be Timothy, and Laragh townland is just north of the
Mayfield Estate.
The
Griffiths profile looks right.
Likelihood?
- AGAINST
THIS
Catherine would’ve been 26 at an 1869 marriage (stated as “21”).
Only
a 50/50 witness connection to the 1869 marriage in Kent.
NO
connection to Bantry Bay and the fishermen!
<<<<< >>>>>
[3]
27/5/44 - to Timothy Hurley & Mary Donovan (Dunmanway – Droumdrastil)
NOTE
- This family has been clearly ELIMINATED. This Catherine and at least two of
her four sisters were all married in the Dunmanway RD as young women. Also, this
Timothy was a tenant farmer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Catherines
bapt date fits well, Dromdrasdil is in the Hurley heartland, there is a
townland called Derragh that would fit the “Hairech” pronunciation, that had
Hurleys in it for centuries, but including some who add to the probability (see
below).
Also,
Catherine Hickey (Hurley) often said something about Bantry Bay, someone’s
personal and clear observation about home-coming fishermen that she would have
most likely been given by her mother, who either saw it first-hand, or was
herself told it by someone close. And it was NOT some piece of common
“folk-lore”. The Dromdrasdil-Coolkellure-Derragh townlands are well towards
Bantry (abt 15kms), and if Catherine’s mother never went there herself, someone
she knew well must have.
The
only other contender is [1], being nearer to Bantry than [9], and also has the
townland Derragh that could be “Hairech”, but there’s no Hurleys in it in
Tithes or Griffiths.
The
Dromdrasdil area
Even
by the late 1500s, when the Hurleys were at the peak of their “presence” in Co
Cork, holding large estates in the “old” Hurley heartland of Fanlobbus,
Ballymoney, and Kilmeen, there were already many lines other than the
Ballynacarriga and Ballinvard families. From the Land Forfeitures of the late
1600s those that moved away seemed to have mainly migrated west and south-west,
settling in the area roughly below a line from Cork to Bantry.
The
Dromdrasdil area is west of Dunmanway in the old Fanlobbus parish, just above
the Dunmanway-Bantry road. It was taken over by English landlords such as the
Shuldhams, a family who still held it in the 1850s, with these Hurleys as
tenants.
The
BMD data found
MARRIAGES
-
25/2/40
– A Timothy Hurley mar a Mary Donovan in Dromdrastil, w Thomas Donovan for
Husb, Cornelius Hurley for wife
BAPTISMS
-
The
children bapt to this couple appear to be –
5/8/42
– Mary, at Dromdrastil Dunmanway, sp Timothy Hurley, Catherine Hurley
27/5/44
– Catherine, at Dromdrastil Dunmanway, sp Patrick Donovan, Margt Shinnick
11/2/46
– Julia, at Dromdrastil Dunmanway, sp Cosmas Hurly, Catherine McCarthy
15/4/50
– Cors, at “GL Cullen” (Goulacullin) Dunmanway, sp Jerh Shinick, Julia Donovan
1/6/52
– Honora, at Dromdrastil Dunmanway, sp Thos Donovan, Honora Donovan
5/11/55
– Johanna, at Dromdrastil Dunmanway, sp Michael Ahern, Mary McCarthy
PARENTS
BAPTISMS –
There
are only two bapts found that could be for the parents of this Timothy, in this
area. (Drimoleague parish adjoins Fanlobbus).
4/6/20
a Timy Hurly to a John & Margt Donovan in Drimoleague
parish, sp Denis Crowly, Kate Donovan
25/5/24
an Ellen Hurly to a John & Margt Donovan in Drimoleague
parish, sp Denis Hurly, Joan Hurly
In
the Griffiths, there is a Timothy Hurley with a father John in Dromdrasdil, and
a John Hurley in Derragh and Dromdrasdil in the Tithes.
There
are also many bapts that clearly look like being of the parents of his wife
above -
24/2/1819
– Rick Donovan to a Thomas Donovan & Mary McCarthy
at
Dromdrasdil, sp Timothy Ronan, Mary Collins
25/3/1821
- Mary Donovan to a Thomas Donovan & Mary McCarthy at Dromdrasdil,
sp John Ronayne, Cathr Murry
23/3/1823
– Patrick Donovan to a Thomas Donovan & Mary McCarthy at
Dromdrasdil, sp Barth Sullivan, Cath Regan
18/2/1825
– Honora Donovan to a Thomas Donovan & Mary McCarthy at
Dromdrasdil, sp Denis Lynch, Mary McCarthy
15/6/1828
– Thomas Donovan to a Thomas Donovan & Mary McCarthy at
Dromdrasdil, sp Jer Ronan, Eliz Canty
The year spacings look right, and the
Thomas name fits the Irish naming conventions.
<<<<< >>>>>>
[4]
8/6/45 - to Timothy Hurley & Mary Driscoll (Kilmacabea)
(Kilmacabea
is northeast of, and includes, Leap on the south coast).
No
relevant marriage can be found for a Timothy Hurley and a Mary Driscoll in
Kilmacabea area, although the recorded children baptised to this couple appear
to be...
28/5/43
– John, at Kilmacabea, sp John McCarthy, Kate French
8/6/45
– Catherine, at Kilmacabea, sp James Neil, Julia Driscoll
But
there is no Timothys in the Griffiths for Kilmacabea.
Likelihood?
There
just isn’t enough data on these two to make a case.
<<<<<< >>>>>>>
[5]
21/9/45 - to Timothy Hurley & Ellen Cadogan (Aughadown – Ardrally)
There
are no Ellen Cadigans bapt in Aughadown 1800-1825 (but there’s lots of Cadigans
on the peninsula).
There’s
no Timothy Hurley bapt in Aughadown 1800-1820.
No
relevant marriage found for a Timothy Hurley and an Ellen Cadogan anywhere, but
the recorded children baptised to them appear to be...
24/4/39
– Mary, at Ardrally Aughadown, sp Tom Hurly, Ellen Ceadagane
4/9/42
– Michael, at Aughadown, sp Jermh Cadogan, Joanna Harrington
21/9/45
– Catherine, at Ardrally, sp Denis Collins, Cath Tobin
8/5/54
– Honora, at Paddock Aughadown, sp Danl Sullivan, Ellen Hurly
There
are some Timothy Hurleys in the Griffiths for Aughadown...
Drisheen
– a 2/- “house”.
Leighcloon
– 11 acres Land, house, and “office”,
Lisheen
Upper – 5/- “house”.
In
the Tithes for Aughadown there’s 18 Hurleys (inc Ardrally) and 22 Cadogans, all
scattered over Turkshead Peninsula just west of Skib.
There
is a marriage (17/2/70) of a Catherine Hurley of Currabeg Arghadown, father
Timothy, Farmer. But IF this is her, can’t find her other two sisters getting
married.
Likelihood?
The
age is getting closer to the “21” in 1869, but again, not really enough other
data to make a case.
<<<<<< >>>>>>>
[6]
3/6/46 – to Timothy Hurley & Kate Daly (Cahcup – Caharagh)
This
is the one that has been selected as the most likely. See the Page "Once We Had Castles And Everything".
<<<<< >>>>>
[7]
19/5/47 – to Timothy H & Ellen Minahane (Ardfield)
Ardfield
parish is on the coast south-west of Clonakilty.
3/3/35
– A Timothy Hurley mar an Ellen Minahane in Ardfield parish witns Joanne
Hurley, Joanne Minahane.
All
children bapt to them appear to be...
26/1/36
– John, at Ardfield, sp James Hurly, Jude Minahane
9/7/38
– Mary, at Ardfield, sp John Hurley, Cate Hurley
19/5/47
– Cate, at Ardfield, sp Danl Minahane, Cate Calnan
An
Ellen Minahane was bapt 17/5/11 to Danl & Cath Ryan (w Ryan, Dooley), but
there’s NO Timothy Hurleys bapt in the relevant period.
In
Griffiths the Ardfield Timothy Hurleys are...
Ballyva
– 38 acres Land, house.
Little
Island - 23 acres Land, house.
Likelihood?
Nothing
here that looks promising except the date being closer to that suggested by the
wedding certificate. As a “Labourer” in 1869 Timothy probably wouldn’t have
held land. There’s no townlands that might sound like “Hairech”.
<<<< >>>>>
The
records actually say “Skibbereen - Creagh and Sullon”. (“Creagh” parish is
halfway between Skib and Baltimore).
The
only marriage found for ANY Timothy Hurley and Mary Harrington in all of Co
Cork is 19/2/1844 in Durrus area (below Bantry) which is too late.
While
there is no marriage on record for these two, the children bapt to them appear
to be...
11/7/41
– Mary, at “Skibbereen”, sp Partick Hurly, Mary Molony
11/11/43
– Denis, at “Skibbereen”, sp Denis Hurly, Eliza Regan
17/11/44
– Patrick, at “Skibbereen”, sp Patrick Hurly, Mary Hurly
26/5/47
– Catherine, at “Skibbereen”, sp - , Julia Mahony
12/11/48
– Timy, at “Skibbereen”, sp Danl Lonard, Mary Leahy
27/3/51
– Denis, of High St “Skibbereen”, sp Peter Coughlan, Cath Donovan
8/1/54
– Michael, of High St, at “Skibbereen”, sp James hurly, Julia Hourihane.
No
less than 9 Mary Harringtons were baptised in Skibbereen RD from 1815 to 1830.
There
are 3 Tim Hurleys bapt in Skibbereen RD 1800-1830.
There
are several Timothy Hurleys in Griffiths for the Skibbereen RD, but only one
that’s for a modest house only, which is in the High St of the town itself, in
Creagh parish, which lines up with the last two kids baptisms.
23/2/73
– (Civil Records) A Catherine Hurley married (signed) in Drinagh East (in
“Skibbereen Parish”), f Timothy, “Farmer”. If this is the one above, she
would’ve been abt 25 at marriage. But “Farmer” doesn’t look right anyway.
14/3/1879
(Deaths) Timothy Hurley, Keelovenogue Drinagh (Skib RD), married, 60 (=bn
1819), Labourer, Pneumonia, inf Nelly H (cross), p.a.d. (This is halfway
between Dunmanway and Skibbereen).
Likelihood?
Again,
her baptism date looks about right, but there’s nothing else.
<<<<< >>>>>
[9]
23/7/47 - to Timothy H & Margt Donovan (Councoum)
This
“Councoum” existed as such in early records, but became “Cuan Cam Beag” – now
“Councambeg” - in Templeomalus parish, south west of Clonakilty.
6/2/40
– A Timothy Hurley mar a Margaret Donovan in Clonakilty RD, w Timothy Donovan,
Joanne Hurley.
All
children bapt to them appear to be...
8/9/44
– Mary, at “Councoum” Clonakilty RD, sp Danl Donovan, Margt Whilton
27/7/47
– Catherine, at “Councoum” Clonakilty RD, sp Jno Sheehy, Julia Donovan
?/6/54
– Jno, at “Councoum” Clonakilty RD, sp Dl Hurly, Mary Holland
15/2/57
– Honora, at “Councoum” Clonakilty RD, sp Jer Donovan, Ellen Donovan.
The
Tithes and Griffiths area for Templeomalus has NO Hurleys at all, and the 1901
Census has NO Hurleys either.
There’s
a Timothy in the adjoining Kilnagross parish, but his kids (with a Mary
Donovan) look like...
24/3/44
– Pat, at “Carugarf” Clonakilty RD, sp Denis Donovan, Mary Conosig (Cowhig?)
16/4/46
– Ellen, at “Carhugariff” Clonakilty RD, sp Michl Regan, Mary Daly
18/3/57
– Mary, at “Councoum” Clonakilty RD, sp Jerh Regan, Cath Donovan
...but
there’s no Catherine in this group, and while “Mary” and “Margt” are easily
confused with each other, and while the 1846 Ellen might fit into either of
these two groups, the 3/1844 and 3/1857 dates clash, suggesting they are
probably separate.
Likelihood?
Again,
no location that could be “Hairech”, and no other data that could cross-check.
<<<<<< >>>>>>>
[10]
21/11/1849 – to Timothy Hurley and Ellen Mahoney, Kilmichael
There
are two possible marriages...
21/2/1841
– In Desertserges parish, witn Arthur Mahoney, Corns Leary.
21/2/1846
– In Gurtnamucka Dunmanway, witn Thos Mahoney, Thos Hurley
...and
it could be either or neither of these two.
The
only kids of these possible two on record are...
14/3/1847
– Edmond, of Inchinshangan, Kilmichael parish, witn John Carthy, Fanny Hurley
21/11/1849
– Kate, of Inchinshangawn, Kilmichael parish, witn Michael Keefe & Honora
Lucey (but this is a “Kate”).
Can’t
find Inchinshanga(w)n townland in Kilmichael parish, one of those that’s
disappeared out of usage.
Likelihood?
Nothing
here of any value.
<<<<< >>>>>
[11]
2/5/1851 – to Timothy Hurley and Jude Casey of Shanacrane, Iverleary
Shanacrane
is in today’s Inchigeelah parish (the current name of old Iveleary parish).
12/2/1850
– A Tim Hurly of Eveleary, married a Julia Casey, witns Daniel Casey, Patrick
Collins.
This
looks like this couple, and their kids on record are...
2/5/1851
– Catherine, Shanacrane, witn Jas Hurley, Nance Casey
8/7/1852
– James, Shanacrane, witn Dominic Casey, Catherine Hurley
27/12/1853
– Elena, Shanacrane, witn Jas Hurley, Jude Hurley
22/8/1855
– John, Shanacrane, witn Jas Hurley, Johanna Mahoney
20/18/1858
– Timothy, Shanacrane, witn Thos Casey, Ellen Cotton
In
Griffiths - Shanacrane East – Timothy Hurley is a tenant farmer with 26 acres,
plus a house, also rents a house out to a Thomas Leane.
Likelihood?
Catherine’s
date would make her 18 at marriage, but this Timothy doesn’t sounds like
Catherine’s father the “Labourer”.
<<<<< >>>>>
[12]
25/6/1851 – to Timothy Hurley and Cath Neil of Kilmeen
This
is in Kilmeen & Castleventry parish, above Clonakilty, and Milleenagun is a
townland.
NO
marriage found for these two, but their kids on record are...
24/10/1844
– Nora, Milleenagun, witns Michael Hurley, Margt Neil
7/10/1846
– Nancy, Milleenagun, witns John Neil, Judith Haly
5/7/1848
– Mary, Milleenagun, witns Con Hurley, Cath Donovan
25/6/1851
– Catherine, Kilmeen, witns Daniel Crowley, Mary Hurley
The
likely Timothy in Griffiths - Milleennagun – tenant farmer of 48 acres Land and
house, plus another 235 acres with two other Hurleys, also rents out a house
and gdn to Lawrence Sullivan.
Likelihood?
Catherine’s
date would make her 18 at marriage, but this Timothy doesn’t sounds like
Catherine’s father the “Labourer”.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>